I do not know if that was the case, but he had just gone through Absalom's rebellion, and Sheba's rebellion, and maybe he allowed that to cross his mind too. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. Hearing that Joshua was camped in their general neighborhood, after his devastating defeat of the strategic cities of Jericho and Ai, the Gibeonites sent a delegation to him at nearby Gilgal. We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. This was obviously later in his life and reign. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. There were not very many of them left. God punished Adam and Eve for their sin. How many rebellions were there? Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. Clarify It does not seem to me that during this time of the three years of famine David was emulating the attitude that he wrote about in Psalm 34. Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. Community answers are sorted based on votes. The soul who sins shall die. They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites A. David avenges the Gibeonites. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. DECEPTION AND COST Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). There are so many things I have got to do.". Here we find the Gibeonites demand, and King David counter demandsNOT. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. This is pretty clear. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? A snare is a trap. It is for Saul. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. Because of their peace treaty and their oath with the Gibeonites, which included these people. We know that you said not to make a covenant with the people the land. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. But, they like the dark one because he is moody, and doing things not for quite the right reasons. What should we get out of this? LAMECH: FALL OUT FROM POLYGAMY; Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. and for his bloody house. Of course, a part of it is being able to look at ourselves and see how dirty, nasty, and rotten we are, and saying, "There is no way that anybody could live in this world without sin; even God's beloved Son.". Is that what happened?" This is very, very important for this vignette in King David's life. But the massacre of the Gibeonites probably occurred after that. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. The young lions lack and suffer hunger; but those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing. From the time of Joshua, throughout the long period of the Judges, the very presence of these deceitful people had not only been a thorn in the side of the Israelis; their position in the land was a dividing wedge that separated southern Judah from the rest of the Kingdom. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. This may have only been a couple of months later. Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. He understood it. And David sought the face of the Lord. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? And the king said, "I will give them.". Why are they where they were? THE STORY OF THE GIBEONITES - He then tells David that he can't marry Michal until he brings Saul 100 Philistine foreskins, thinking that David will definitely die in this attempt. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. However, the Gibeonites did. We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. In the economy of God's providence, however, such tiny events often matter much. Numbers 35:29-33 And these things shall be a statute of judgment to you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. There is more space given to David's flaws than anyone else in the whole Bible. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. This was a long time ago. He was thinking about a lot of other things. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. God sees behind the scenes. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. Justice seems to have been served. There is a difference. And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation" Psalm 24:4-5. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. What might he have done? This famine has been going on for three years, year after year. And how do I know this? Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. He was the king. He needed God to forgive him. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). The Israelites had promised not to To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. He sees the hearts of men and the hidden actions of men. This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. Yet, because of the long time that has passed since then until now, when the Gibeonites were asked to bring it up, how many of the guilty ones had died? You had to go up quite a bit. But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. God only let the rain cycle start again. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving & "Take heed that you be not deceived." The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. There is not much wiggle room in all this. Perhaps these last few verses suggest that, in burying the bones of Saul and Jonathan, David repented of his sins regarding this whole incident. Notice God declares that the bloodguilt was not just on Saul, but also his house. 0 responses All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. And the king said, "I will give them." How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? Webzeal of king Saul - who was a Benjaminite - against the Gibeonites. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. Vote Up It said earlier that they wanted them to be hung before the Lord in Gibeah of Saul. Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. Something is wrong, David. Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death [he cannot buy his way out]. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. Lets be clear from the very beginning, David was kind to Mephibosheth for his father Jonathans sake (2 Samuel 9:1). Mephibosheth was only five ye He could have done whatever he wanted. King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. The choice by Adam and Eve in the garden was a sin, and they paid for it through death. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. A lot can happen in two years. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. Then they went back and took Ai. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. He did not do anything to directly intervene. He did not negotiate at all. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. God extends blessings far farther into the future than He does the curses. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. Just tell me and I will do it for you.. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. 2 And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the THE STORY OF JOSEPH - It is in II Samuel 21. persecuted and killed the Gibeonites men in a covenant relationship with Israel who served at the tabernacle. Now it came to pass, when Adonizedec king of And, that was that. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. Good question. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. So, give or take, 40 to 50 years have passed. And we bear the guilt with them for that. And they sent them to Joshua at Gilgal. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. Finally the light came on, and David said, "I had better ask what is going on here. By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. We cannot let them linger around. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. When this righteous ruler turned to God, the Lord showed him that arrogant error of his predecessor. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. Saul killed a lot of people. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. Scripture has said this explicitly. Now that we have established that there was a horrible massacre at some point in the past, remember there was sin, and there was a crime committed. There was justice that was going to take place. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. There is less bloodshed, and there will not be much opportunity like in Gentile nations for these blood feuds to last for years and generations. By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. So they thought, "Hmm. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". Another thing that God said to do was not done. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. Where are they from? Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." God said explicitly to destroy everything! God's correction may come a He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. 0 responses Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who trusts in Him! The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." It cut us off from God. The stories of such people like Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, and on through the chapter give us hope that like them we can overcome and be assured of entering the Kingdom of God. How many died in sicknesses? Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. The Israelites had taken an oath concerning them, but in his zeal for Israel and Judah, Saul had sought to kill them.) Based on what he knew, and what was available in God's law, David should have been much more judicious. And it very seriously affected his judgment in this matter. The midrash states that when Saul learned of this, he was angry with his daughter and demanded of her: Why did you deceive me and let my enemy escape? This is a bit unusual. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. You are getting later and later in David's life here. Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. How far away was Gilgal from Gibeon? Certainly, after three years you would. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. He just simply rolled over. I do not know when God through Samuel stripped him of the kingdom. After that, they had their problems at Ai, and figured out that Achan was responsible for that. Web11 Then the king sent for the priest Ahimelek son of Ahitub and all the men of his family, who were the priests at Nob, and they all came to the king. See? Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev He was distracted. September 01 2013 Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. Then we have verses 34 through 36. . We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. This does not make any sense. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. These are the two hints. It does not require at all times that a person guilty of bloodshed die. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. We still need some more background. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. But it appears at least 40, maybe 50 years in the past. Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Without checking out their story; without surveying the geographical situation; most of all, without consulting the Lord and waiting for His guidance, Joshua went impulsively ahead and signed a binding, lasting agreement with the Gibeonites. ESV - He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". If a person sins, he receives God's judgment for those sins. 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