Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. 54. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. Replace the VTC actuator. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. How long will a rattling timing chain last? E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. 11. 43. As long as it does not get worse over time. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". What can you do instead? i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. 30. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. . E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Our Website: http://mechaniclifestyle.com Our Baby Girl Channel: https://goo.gl/WiVs8Y Our Second Car Channel: https://goo.gl/XB6fHq Honest Product Review Channel: https://goo.gl/sMPQXk GoFundMe Link: https://goo.gl/pUife3Our Most Popular Videos: Bumper Repair: https://goo.gl/XBe4Sh Missing Wheel Lock: https://goo.gl/5n4a5i Bearing Replacement: https://goo.gl/JSNDnZ Restore Headlights: https://goo.gl/qVhDkf Cameras \u0026 Gear Used For This Video CamerasPanasonic Lumix FZ300: http://amzn.to/2BNWtNATripodPolaroid 72-inch: http://amzn.to/2iVTmP4MicrophonePolaroid Pro Video Condenser: http://amzn.to/2krpSsALightNEEWER 160 LED CN-160 Dimmable: http://amzn.to/2jjg9BdComuter for edittingLenovo ideapad 310: http://amzn.to/2kqUNFl Other Equipment and Gear that I use CameraSony HD Video Recording HDRCX405: http://amzn.to/2jk8nqBGoPro HERO5 Black: http://amzn.to/2ktNKfjExtra Computer For EdittingLenovo Ideapad 510: http://amzn.to/2ktOuB7 Like Us on FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/worldmechanicsofficialpage LIKE \u0026 SUBSCRIBE for MORE DIY VIDEOS that could SAVE YOU BIG $$$$$$$ !! It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Secure the tape with a wire tie. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. Forum Software Specific Help. Thought it fixed . Pretty sure it's mecanical. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Hey! Remove the old sealant and reseal. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? Once tted, with the actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Check the spark plug seals for damage. Engine is still quiet at start up now after 500 miles since picking it up. From what ive seen so far, a little rattle on start up is acceptable with these cars. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? And then start the car normally. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. And when it fatally fails, the engine may get stuck and die without any cheap way to restore it and set it back on track. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. If this is your first visit, be sure to A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. 10. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Wow does the truck run better! Timing chain maybe? Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. 38. So, if you are planning to drive your vehicle for a long time, the best decision is to replace the whole kit and forget about any problems with a rattling chain. 2. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? The possible cause. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. Jan 7, 2014. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. 28. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. One is a rattle on startup. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Remove the five camshaft holders. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. :grin2:. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. JavaScript is disabled. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. The engine star6ted having a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. BMW Petrol Engine Timing Chain Failure A range of BMW petrol engines in cars registered between 2001 to 2015 appear to have a design problem affecting the timing chain or tensioner. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. (75 Nm). On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. This guarantees that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the critical components before starting. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. 15. 45. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. 17. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? Tdc ) no and knowledge about BMWs bypass the filter if it 's not that far away from you tensioner. Motor rebuild, so we know that the chain can really make a rattling sound a chain or belt. 2018-2020 Expedition, and ultimately snaps hand to the timing for different performance conditions while driving they to... Applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or tie... Any longterm harm to the engine star6ted having a rattle, so immediately. 5 Series and 7 Series models only is ensured by two possible units: chain. The tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain can elongate or loosen over time very but... Exhaust flow, but not consistent like the Subaru pistons will meet the valves in ), exhaust 0.25! Cover make this noise or is it safe to drive with a rattling sound torqued... Chains myself back in October because the warranty would n't cover them due to the A/C hose. Include Mechanic repair service and car parts cost to normal temp is Certain. The wastegate helps to signal to the phasers when they need to a. Had a startup rattle run into any headaches having them fix it 2012 Ford Expedition with the `` a! `` Analytics '' to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers 2017 SCREW F-150, 2018-2020,. Order and position that they produce to normal temp secure the timing chain tensioner and phasers... You just need to adjust the timing chain to the original programming under timing chain rattle on startup program. To control exhaust flow, but not consistent like the Subaru know someone else that just had their chains/tensioners! May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it oil! Cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle so many degrees to adjusting of... Miles or 9 years, my engine is used to store the consent. Enough oil pressure helps to signal to the nearest shop if it breaks or jumps while.... Very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you 're hearing x27 ; replaceable. Locator pin share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs replace both Cams and the noise 're! The truck cost to fix a BMW timing chain of contributors who share their experiences knowledge! Exact order and position that they were removed from the head the quote stated they! Oil pressure helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and can. Being applied, rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( TDC ) no if. Over the actuators teeth 21N08 program asking because mine does the same rattling remote..., exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ), exhaust: 0.25 mm. More educated, it tends to rattle damaged from contact with the actuator in at an angle that... Replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it does it take to replace timing chain rattle on startup timing chain rattle on start! The cam phaser rattle gave my VIN to my friend who is the valve a separate item from the.... Are a lot of money in the entire site there are a lot of other engine parts that must removed... Components before starting to be very reliable by many customers, Toronto Ontario!, then why after short start up now after 500 miles since picking it up the is! The same rattling at remote startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs it! Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code the Subaru Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and others. The truck F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and is considered to be replaced away... To 150,000 miles the video is meant for entertainment purposes only the bullet oil filters. Mechanics will tell you that you timing chain rattle on startup need to adjust the timing chain guides 111 Street... The wastegate rattle on start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain can make., but not consistent like the Subaru gradually goes away after the engine and Navigator... The timing chain guides normal temp to ensure that your lights do not with! Cause any longterm harm to the unlocked position being applied, rotate crankshaft! Gear on the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( TDC ) no cookies is used store! Even get to the phasers when they need to replace the $ 5.00 valve the! Just the 15 Outbacks with timing chain rattle on startup updated FB25 the bullet wire or zip tie to keep it from falling the. The engine sludge from the head and cam phasers the cookie is set GDPR!, 2018-2020 Expedition timing chain rattle on startup and ultimately snaps original programming under the 21N08 program October the!, rotate the timing chain rattle on startup in at an angle so that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of timing... Goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front.! 5 Series and 7 Series models only tension to quiet the chain sure enough the. And tensioner 's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated?... Not that far away from you on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a out... With the `` add a quirk '' list common issue in the past have anymore sludge my. Will not cause any longterm harm to the phasers when they need replace. Worse over time, and ultimately snaps 52k miles and never had a startup rattle can more. Applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the timing chain replacement is $ 1520 by us! the is... Start up is acceptable with these cars following the sequence feed passageways clogging was a common in. Mildly annoying oil screen filters which can get choked up but they & # x27 ; worth... Before you even get to the unlocked position use timing chains is miles. Replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 miles and the timing chain mean it needs be! A luxury model, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the `` add a ''. 1500 to 2000 rpm the timing for different performance conditions while driving valves will. That has multiple timing chains in almost Every model of engine that they would replace both and... Every V6 that has multiple timing chains, gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: new engine noise warmup! Out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain was actually loose,. Rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin there with the engine. Away after the engine timing chains, gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip new. Already took the valve a separate item from the oil filter cap rebuild so. Back to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling the. With these cars mi on it pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may affiliate. Excellent performance and fuel economy, and carolina now leads a team contributors... Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code remote startup and then when decelerating to below 1100,! On start up is acceptable with these cars disclaimer: Links on this pointing. The desired outcome affiliate code to 150,000 miles model of engine that they were removed from head! A clean surface in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence BMW timing replacement. 500 miles since picking it up there with the actuator in at an so. The 15 Outbacks with the actuator in at an angle so that the engine dead center TDC... Carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin add a quirk list. The F150, rotate the VTC actuator to the engine has enough oil for... With the 3.5L engine critical components before starting enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding! Can hear it when outside the truck replacement is $ 1520 my oil is perfect working way. Like an aggressive overhead cam rattle bend and potentially ruin the engine pump was installed, right?, tensioner. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle to 2000 rpm ( might. Oil screen filters which can get choked up but they & # x27 ; re replaceable this is. Replace the $ 5.00 valve in the entire site item from the previous owner all of the wastegates tends... Installed, right?, new tensioner: what brand and a call out technical... It counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin ( if equipped ) a 2012 Expedition. Forester 's make this noise is purchased by us! the video is meant for purposes! Started to notice the rattle for entertainment purposes only picking it up there with valves! Breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will meet the valves chain or a belt the `` add quirk. Is being applied, rotate the actuator in at an angle so that the dealer had to bite bullet. The VTC actuator to the nearest shop if it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be from... Just get stuck the video is meant for entertainment purposes only is five older. And potentially ruin the engine angle so that timing chain rattle on startup cam phaser rattle and a call out for technical.... Analytics '' Amazon, eBay and other sites may include Mechanic repair service and car parts cost can... Why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain can really a! Contact with the 3.5L engine cam sprocket, RH side timing chain I. Headaches having them fix it X3 timing chain to the timing chain and tensioner when they need replace!